Japanese Black Pine Candle Cutting In Winter??

[Chunky Trunks]

Hello there, I have a Japanese black Pine. Zone 8A, is it too late (Dec 10 winter) this year to cut candles? Few freezes and 30* weather on the way, Matthews, NC. Overall good healthy tree. Looking to repot and get good needle reduction in a smaller pot in the spring.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Pruning for branch selection and balancing, yes, but that’s not really candle-cutting.

 

[Chunky Trunks]

thank you sir. Could you recommend a good video or article to reference for branch selection and balancing?

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

thank you sir. Could you recommend a good video or article to reference for branch selection and balancing?

I don’t know, been doing it a long time so not really watching videos on it. Search here, I’ve written some about it. Check Bonsai Empire, Eisei-en, Bonsai Tonight, Eric Shrader.

 

[River's Edge]

Keep in mind that most presentations show what is done in a particular situation! The decision making process comes with experience in handling various stages of development and the myriad of individual situations that occur with development and refinement.

 

[Wulfskaar]

thank you sir. Could you recommend a good video or article to reference for branch selection and balancing?

This one's pretty decent.

Eric Schrader's videos are very good as well.

https://www.youtube.com/@Bonsaify

 

[SeanS]

This one's pretty decent.

Eric Schrader's videos are very good as well.

https://www.youtube.com/@Bonsaify

I think OP needs help with JBPs in winter though, Bjorn’s video seems to be focussed on single flush pines

 

[Shibui]

Could we please see the tree in question. That may help with some of the variables mentioned by @River's Edge
Photos may also help some experienced growers advise whether the tree is ready for candle cutting or whether some other technique might be more appropriate.

Please note that it seems to take a few years for candle cutting and the other associated techniques - needle pulling and bud selection - to give good ramification and good needle reduction.

 

[Chunky Trunks]

Could we please see the tree in question. That may help with some of the variables mentioned by @River's Edge
Photos may also help some experienced growers advise whether the tree is ready for candle cutting or whether some other technique might be more appropriate.

Please note that it seems to take a few years for candle cutting and the other associated techniques - needle pulling and bud selection - to give good ramification and good needle reduction.

 

[TomP]

You can do candle selection now. I would reduce the number of candles to two at each growing tip (looks like you have at least one with 3 candles) Do that by cutting the ones you want to remove at the base. The candles you want to keep should be roughly the same size across the tree, so remove the candle that are larger than average or smaller than average if possible, but make sure you have two at each tip even if they are not the same size. (or one if there is only one to start with) Feed heavily in the spring and then decandle in early summer -- you will need to check with some locals--here in Huntsville I would do this at the very end of June, but it depends on how long the growing season is

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

I think OP needs help with JBPs in winter though, Bjorn’s video seems to be focussed on single flush pines

I've watched those videos a lot, and essentially I was able to distill very little out of it.
Rebalancing strength, yes.
Timing? Vague.
What to do the rest of the year in terms of pruning etcetera? Also vague.
I love Bjorn, but the single flush pines videos show his videography skill more than they do his bonsai knowledge justice.
Which is why I made a single flush (scots pine) care sheet that covers all of it in one document.

 

[Wulfskaar]

I think OP needs help with JBPs in winter though, Bjorn’s video seems to be focussed on single flush pines

You're right!
@Chunky Trunks My bad on that! Watch the JBP videos from Eric Schrader. They are clear and easy to follow.

 

[River's Edge]

Your tree is still in the early stages of development, where the primary focus should be on establishing the branch position and applying techniques that encourage back budding. The branches are in need of reduction but only after you have developed foliage closer in to the trunk. The current branching has foliage too far out on the branch to be used for design given the size of the trunk.
Even though ideally this would have already been started it is still doable. It will take several years to strengthen, grow out and cut back the branches. The branches will respond individually so they will have to be treated as such. In other words you will not always apply the same techniques to each branch at the same time. Some will require stalling the growth, others will require thickening and longer periods of grow out.
Your main technique will be to strengthen, grow out and cut back to suitable side shoots! If you wire the branches you choose to keep in appropriate angles and movement that will also encourage back budding. Make sure the new buds are developed into healthy shoots before cutting back again. A good guideline is a healthy two year old shoot! Reducing the outside foliage to two shoots is possible but the reduction will weaken the branch when you are after extra strength that will produce a stronger response when cut back. In short during development the extra vigorous will support faster development. Candle cutting, needle reduction or balancing are useful techniques in refinement. Using those techniques at this point will actually slow down the process of compacting foliage and inducing back budding closer to the trunk.
Hope the comments help to put things in perspective.

Step one : decide which branches will be design branches, they need techniques for back budding .
Step two: decide if any branches can be used for sacrifice branches to grow taper or further develop the trunk thickness.
Step three: do not make these decisions without considering the existing nebari for best front.

Your techniques and specific pruning will be based on the decisions made above and the conditions of each part of the tree. Along with the overall condition. In these early stages the more foliage you can retain without creating future problems, the faster the tree will develop and the better it will respond to pruning!

 

[WavyGaby]

Hey buddy!

I recommend almost the same as Rivers Edge with the caveat that needle pulling is the first step here. Needle pulling is used to balance vigor, and open light and air for back budding.

Repot in the spring and get this thing strong. Bring it to BLC during our March meeting and use non organic soil.

You have some low thin branches, it will be easy to get those to backbud once healthy and fed. Let the thin branches run to encourage strength and backbudding. I would consider that first low left branch as a sacrifice. It looks like you have branches above it that will take its place. If you see a design, start wiring the branches. If not, wait until June.

 

[Paradox]

I agree with the advice given by River's Edge.
The video posted is a good start but please take time over the winter to research and educate yourself about black pine development and care before you do something at the wrong time and set your tree back or worse. Winter is a good time as trees are dormant and not much work needs to be done during that time.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

@Chunky Trunks any chance you actually mean bud selection and not candle cutting? Bud selection is reducing the terminal buds down to 1-2 equally-sized buds on every terminal. That is appropriate work this time of year.

 

[circledisk]

I know this isn’t the most productive answer but I’m sure Mirai has something on this exact topic

 

[Shibui]

The candles in the photo are not candles that we would cut in summer. They are developing buds that will then extend and open in spring. Cutting those buds now will definitely NOT give the desired outcome. 'Candle cutting' is actually a misleading term. It would be more appropriate to say 'half grown spring soot removal' but that's obviously not as catchy. Time of year for that process is definitely important. The usual timing is given as 100 days before first frost expected but first few weeks of summer is probably pretty close.

Definitely read and follow the advice given by @River's Edge I believe he knows more about these initial stages of pine development than probably all the high profile social media stars - who tend to focus more on the final stages rather than the initial stages.

any chance you actually mean bud selection and not candle cutting? Bud selection is reducing the terminal buds down to 1-2 equally-sized buds on every terminal. That is appropriate work this time of year.

Bud selection goes along with candle cutting and is one of the important parts to pine maintenance but I don't think this tree is ready for that yet.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Bud selection goes along with candle cutting and is one of the important parts to pine maintenance but I don't think this tree is ready for that yet.

At this stage, bud selection makes more sense than “winter candle-cutting” and sometimes newer practitioners get the terms confused.

Based on the OP question, and now seeing the tree, I’m trying to understand what he sees as next steps. It appears the tree was chopped at one point, and needs a sacrificial new leader to build another section of trunk. Then final branches should be identified and wired into position. If I was doing that, I would balance the bud size on final branches and likely leave as many needles as possible.

 

[River's Edge]

My comments are succinct for a reason. The Op needs to begin to understand the developmental process before applying specific techniques. When I read Brian's comments, I believe they mesh with my experience and training, as well as what I was expressing.
The difficulty with selecting a video or set of instructions is that the development of each tree varies as does the process used by the grower. When you purchase a tree the process begins with that particular situation.
This tree is in a very common stage found with Japanese Black Pines under development. The trunk has been chopped too soon, without developing a secondary sacrifice leader to introduce taper and build the next section. The branches are thin with respect to foliage and have been treated the same when some should have been pruned as sacrifice and others developed as primary branches from the beginning.

Hey buddy!

I recommend almost the same as Rivers Edge with the caveat that needle pulling is the first step here. Needle pulling is used to balance vigor, and open light and air for back budding.

Repot in the spring and get this thing strong. Bring it to BLC during our March meeting and use non organic soil.

You have some low thin branches, it will be easy to get those to backbud once healthy and fed. Let the thin branches run to encourage strength and backbudding. I would consider that first low left branch as a sacrifice. It looks like you have branches above it that will take its place. If you see a design, start wiring the branches. If not, wait until June.

Needle pulling is not the first step at this stage! The branches are bare where the back budding needs to occur! Wiring down the branches will open them to light and air. Removing any extra foliage at this point will reduce the vigour and health of the tree! Bud selection or shoot reduction can occur after growing out and improving the trees strength. That will improve the back bud response. In this particular situation there is no shading taking place that requires thinning to let in light and air.