Real Stone Pots; is time now (or never)?

[Boulder Bear]

Hey there,
Search engines appear littered with obvious attempts at stone-bonsai pots. Isn’t it nearly every serious practitioners lustful wish to present at least a few of their plants and natural stone containers to more fully convey the scene they wish to share?
While being downright competitive in weight to faux clay options, we FINALLY have real-stone pots available!!! Yet over and over people seem to balk at stone pots priced the same as high-end clay pots (with stone taking SOOO many more hands-on hours to create…not to mention MUCH dirtier, and more dangerous to manufacture).
Why are we balking do u suppose? It’s like finally finding a mate we’ve complained for years we deserved, then walking away with out even engaging in conversation. I don’t get it!
ANY ideas?

 

[penumbra]

Love them. Stone pots I have found to be pricey.

 

[LeonardB]

Hey there,
View attachment 501218 Search engines appear littered with obvious attempts at stone-bonsai pots. Isn’t it nearly every serious practitioners lustful wish to present at least a few of their plants and natural stone containers to more fully convey the scene they wish to share?
While being downright competitive in weight to faux clay options, we FINALLY have real-stone pots available!!! Yet over and over people seem to balk at stone pots priced the same as high-end clay pots (with stone taking SOOO many more hands-on hours to create…not to mention MUCH dirtier, and more dangerous to manufacture).
Why are we balking do u suppose? It’s like finally finding a mate we’ve complained for years we deserved, then walking away with out even engaging in conversation. I don’t get it!
ANY ideas?View attachment 501214View attachment 501215View attachment 501216View attachment 501217View attachment 501216View attachment 501216View attachment 501216

They look pretty impressive to me.

 

[LeonardB]

Love them. Stone pots I have found to be pricey.

Just think of all the time and effort, averaged in to the cost. All of a sudden, great deal!

 

[Boulder Bear]

Just think of all the time and effort, averaged in to the cost. All of a sudden, great deal!

Agreeably ANY pot $450-$1450 is VERY pricy to me…yet for a couple of my trees, I would be willing to sacrifice and save up for the right fit.

Yet, it seems like people are ok with spending that on faux-stone, but real stone presenting new (yet manageable) challenges and interest takes a HUGE nose dive.


Wish I cld understand the psychology behind interest longingly expressed, yet kept at arms length when finally made available.

Thanks for any and all contributions.

It’s a riddle that just stumps me!!

Love them. Stone pots I have found to be pricey.

Any idea what a mid-ranged, mid-sized stone pot wld commonly retail for?

Also, do vendors at shows usually offer pricing below retail, or high retail?

I’m going to my first show end of this month and hoping I might get my hands on a stone pot (FINALLY!!)

 

[chicago1980]

Hey there,
View attachment 501218 Search engines appear littered with obvious attempts at stone-bonsai pots. Isn’t it nearly every serious practitioners lustful wish to present at least a few of their plants and natural stone containers to more fully convey the scene they wish to share?
While being downright competitive in weight to faux clay options, we FINALLY have real-stone pots available!!! Yet over and over people seem to balk at stone pots priced the same as high-end clay pots (with stone taking SOOO many more hands-on hours to create…not to mention MUCH dirtier, and more dangerous to manufacture).
Why are we balking do u suppose? It’s like finally finding a mate we’ve complained for years we deserved, then walking away with out even engaging in conversation. I don’t get it!
ANY ideas?View attachment 501214View attachment 501215View attachment 501216View attachment 501217View attachment 501216View attachment 501216View attachment 501216

Maybe there is not as much demand as you had perceived for stone pots in bonsai.

 

[rockm]

Hey there,
View attachment 501218 Search engines appear littered with obvious attempts at stone-bonsai pots. Isn’t it nearly every serious practitioners lustful wish to present at least a few of their plants and natural stone containers to more fully convey the scene they wish to share?
While being downright competitive in weight to faux clay options, we FINALLY have real-stone pots available!!! Yet over and over people seem to balk at stone pots priced the same as high-end clay pots (with stone taking SOOO many more hands-on hours to create…not to mention MUCH dirtier, and more dangerous to manufacture).
Why are we balking do u suppose? It’s like finally finding a mate we’ve complained for years we deserved, then walking away with out even engaging in conversation. I don’t get it!
ANY ideas?View attachment 501214View attachment 501215View attachment 501216View attachment 501217View attachment 501216View attachment 501216View attachment 501216

Not sure what your point is--you selling stone pots?. There are stone pots available if you look around, particularly Kurama stones from Japan.

FWIW, Stone bonsai pots tend to be too small for my trees. They also tend to be VERY expensive, although they seems to be selling pretty well... They're also mostly too HEAVY to use with large and very large trees. A 24" stone pot gives me a hernia just thinking about moving it to overwinter the tree or to do maintenance.

I'm all for using them if they're well-made (which includes some thought to what kind of stone is used) and they're practical.

 

[Boulder Bear]

Not sure what your point is--you selling stone pots?. There are stone pots available if you look around, particularly Kurama stones from Japan.

FWIW, Stone bonsai pots tend to be too small for my trees. They also tend to be VERY expensive, although they seems to be selling pretty well... They're also mostly too HEAVY to use with large and very large trees. A 24" stone pot gives me a hernia just thinking about moving it to overwinter the tree or to do maintenance.

I'm all for using them if they're well-made (which includes some thought to what kind of stone is used) and they're practical.

WOW!!! At 54, 24” ANYTHING wld give me a hernia!! Haven’t really tested yet, but my largest tree only has about an 8” diameter and it’s in a round-ish Freeform, and that’s my MAX.
If I dropped it in a rec or oval, I’m pretty sure it’d be 2 much for me.


To answer ur question, I’m trying to sell them with my first official public offering (outside of Mirai), coming end of this month.
I don’t want at all to gouge buyers. Yet with burger-flipping wage here @ $23 an hour, itd be nice to get $30 an hour for the work (especially since I can’t even HIRE an assistant for this particular work, for THAT price here). And $30 an hour doesn’t cover ANY overhead costs, (of which there are many).
I find myself perplexed cause, granted they’re at the VERY pinnacle price-range for pots, but there appear to be MANY traditional clay, and exceptionally well done faux-stone pots that sell from $600-$1800, but natural stone doesn’t seem to garner the same attention and I’m confused why (i.e. that red pot above is 9”x4.5” square-ish and only weighs 12.5 pounds…that seems like @/near weight of some finer clay pots I’ve come across).

With only 20ish available to sell at the show, I promise I’m NOT trying to sell here now.
If anyone was inclined to offer up suggested price ranges, or if 13-19 pounds for 8” up to (aprox) 16”x13” seems too heavy, it’s seems to me I’ve played myself the fool cause there’s FAAAR less interest that I’d thought there wld be…I assure u, there’s nothing like these, with this wall-thickness in these stone-types out there…I’ve looked with feverish-intent:
This isn’t about garnering the sympathy vote…this was quite the endeavor, all self-taught, and quite, qu-EYE-t painful.
I’ve put 3.5 years, and thousands of $ into developing a process where I cld get the stone walls thin enough to compete with clay, yet maintain integrity. At 53 retired from AK commercial fishing and CA construction industries, if I can’t afford to pay help (payroll overhead $30 minimum for this work…I know cause I’ve tried to hire these past 3.5 years), the toll on my hands is such im probably gonna be VERY hard pressed to do 20 a year.
I promise, I’m accustomed to a humble life, but I think I may have over-estimated the number of people who wld value stone in an industry where there’s little shortage of expensive purchase options.

With my upcoming show, and the pain I’ve gone through since May, I kinda don’t want to do this any more, yet after SO much invested, I don’t want to just turn my back to it, and I was hoping some clarity from others might offer a nudge of guidance for a direction to go. “Beautiful” or “nice”, though kind and genuinely appreciated sentiments on rare occasions they’re shared, I don’t think they’re theyre enough to endure the occasional mornings spent sobbing with tears rolling down my cheeks cause the burning pain in my hands is so bad I wished they cld be cut off (no BS).

The preverbal fork-in-the-road is why I’m inquiring, I’m feeling a bit thick-in-the head, audacious, or at least over-ambitious right now for having put SO much into this.

I’m stubborn as hell if nothing else

Thanks for taking a moment to read and respond for any who do! I’m truly grateful for ur help and time!

 

[rockm]

WOW!!! At 54, 24” ANYTHING wld give me a hernia!! Haven’t really tested yet, but my largest tree only has about an 8” diameter and it’s in a round-ish Freeform, and that’s my MAX.
If I dropped it in a rec or oval, I’m pretty sure it’d be 2 much for me.


To answer ur question, I’m trying to sell them with my first official public offering (outside of Mirai), coming end of this month.
I don’t want at all to gouge buyers. Yet with burger-flipping wage here @ $23 an hour, itd be nice to get $30 an hour for the work (especially since I can’t even HIRE an assistant for this particular work, for THAT price here). And $30 an hour doesn’t cover ANY overhead costs, (of which there are many).
I find myself perplexed cause, granted they’re at the VERY pinnacle price-range for pots, but there appear to be MANY traditional clay, and exceptionally well done faux-stone pots that sell from $600-$1800, but natural stone doesn’t seem to garner the same attention and I’m confused why (i.e. that red pot above is 9”x4.5” square-ish and only weighs 12.5 pounds…that seems like @/near weight of some finer clay pots I’ve come across).

With only 20ish available to sell at the show, I promise I’m NOT trying to sell here now.
If anyone was inclined to offer up suggested price ranges, or if 13-19 pounds for 8” up to (aprox) 16”x13” seems too heavy, it’s seems to me I’ve played myself the fool cause there’s FAAAR less interest that I’d thought there wld be…I assure u, there’s nothing like these, with this wall-thickness in these stone-types out there…I’ve looked with feverish-intent:
This isn’t about garnering the sympathy vote…this was quite the endeavor, all self-taught, and quite, qu-EYE-t painful.
I’ve put 3.5 years, and thousands of $ into developing a process where I cld get the stone walls thin enough to compete with clay, yet maintain integrity. At 53 retired from AK commercial fishing and CA construction industries, if I can’t afford to pay help (payroll overhead $30 minimum for this work…I know cause I’ve tried to hire these past 3.5 years), the toll on my hands is such im probably gonna be VERY hard pressed to do 20 a year.
I promise, I’m accustomed to a humble life, but I think I may have over-estimated the number of people who wld value stone in an industry where there’s little shortage of expensive purchase options.

With my upcoming show, and the pain I’ve gone through since May, I kinda don’t want to do this any more, yet after SO much invested, I don’t want to just turn my back to it, and I was hoping some clarity from others might offer a nudge of guidance for a direction to go. “Beautiful” or “nice”, though kind and genuinely appreciated sentiments on rare occasions they’re shared, I don’t think they’re theyre enough to endure the occasional mornings spent sobbing with tears rolling down my cheeks cause the burning pain in my hands is so bad I wished they cld be cut off (no BS).

The preverbal fork-in-the-road is why I’m inquiring, I’m feeling a bit thick-in-the head, audacious, or at least over-ambitious right now for having put SO much into this.

I’m stubborn as hell if nothing else

Thanks for taking a moment to read and respond for any who do! I’m truly grateful for ur help and time!

FWIW, I think there IS a market for them, particularly for pots that are as well done as yours.

The problem is the exact market that's looking for them, which is going to be the higher end. That high end market is gathering in September in upstate (near Rochester) New York for the Nationals show.

Don't know if you plan on attending the Nationals, but I'd bet you sell those 20 pots pretty quickly there.

Logistically, shipping these is going to add considerably to costs. I'd Take a page from Joe Day, who used to (don't know if he still does) make large and extremely large stone slabs for forest plantings. He worked large flagstones into some spectacular bonsai forest slabs using chisels, and rotary grinders. Not trying to get you to work slabs (although there is a considerable niche there, as no one is making large real stone slabs much)

Here's the part you might think about--I don't think Joe Day shipped most, or any, of his slabs, preferring to sell them at shows and bonsai cub meetings...Shipping a three foot long two foot wide stone is, obviously, problematic.

You don't give your location, so there's no way to tell what the local bonsai scene looks like for your. Traveling might be in the cards to market the stone pots successfully.

 

[rockm]

Additionally, I'd pay attention to Mirai's site to what is selling. From what I can see, it's the smaller $600-$1000 stones that selling (and pretty quickly, I might add).

 

[Boulder Bear]

Thank you R

Additionally, I'd pay attention to Mirai's site to what is selling. From what I can see, it's the smaller $600-$1000 stones that selling (and pretty quickly, I might add).

Rockm!! Agreed on the smaller pots. I’d noticed that also. I’d just be happy selling them at my wholesale $, at least 1/2 of retail.

No matter the genre of item, there’s always more hamburger that sells than steak
Porsche boxers sell more than their higher-end models, same can be said for any luxury brand, it’s always their cheaper models that sell the most.
I’m SUPER grateful for ur input though!!
With such a long post, I didn’t expect anyone to read it. Kind of u to take the time Rockm!!

 

[Boulder Bear]

FWIW, I think there IS a market for them, particularly for pots that are as well done as yours.

The problem is the exact market that's looking for them, which is going to be the higher end. That high end market is gathering in September in upstate (near Rochester) New York for the Nationals show.

Don't know if you plan on attending the Nationals, but I'd bet you sell those 20 pots pretty quickly there.

Logistically, shipping these is going to add considerably to costs. I'd Take a page from Joe Day, who used to (don't know if he still does) make large and extremely large stone slabs for forest plantings. He worked large flagstones into some spectacular bonsai forest slabs using chisels, and rotary grinders. Not trying to get you to work slabs (although there is a considerable niche there, as no one is making large real stone slabs much)

Here's the part you might think about--I don't think Joe Day shipped most, or any, of his slabs, preferring to sell them at shows and bonsai cub meetings...Shipping a three foot long two foot wide stone is, obviously, problematic.

You don't give your location, so there's no way to tell what the local bonsai scene looks like for your. Traveling might be in the cards to market the stone pots successfully.

I would LOVE to go there to sell, but don’t know who to contact to request being a vendor.

Do you know somebody, or know somebody who knows somebody to contact to see if there’s still space available?

Also, is the official name of the event, The Nationals? Or does it go by something else?

Lastly, I’m out here on west Coast, Bay/Wine Country area. Hoping for a good enough showing to be invited to The Rendezvous in November .
I was going to offer most all my pots at 40% retail, that would put most of them ranged in the $300-$600 range.

If any of the below pots were in that range, u think there wld be a decent chance they’d move?
Forgive me. Only starting bonsai in 2020, 100% self taught, and not a member of any club, I’ve tried reaching out a couple different times to other induviduals for SOME sense of how they’d be received, pricing, etc, but NEVER got a response.

This was my hail marry attempt at getting feedback.

Thanks again rockm!!

Again, pls let me know about nationals if u do have a lead

Boulder Bear

 

[Boulder Bear]

Maybe there is not as much demand as you had perceived for stone pots

Hey Chicago,
Do u think interest wld increase dramatically, or not much at all, id similar quality of stone pots, medium sized pots but for $150-$200 wld increase overall interest?

 

[Boulder Bear]

Not sure what your point is--you selling stone pots?. There are stone pots available if you look around, particularly Kurama stones from Japan.

FWIW, Stone bonsai pots tend to be too small for my trees. They also tend to be VERY expensive, although they seems to be selling pretty well... They're also mostly too HEAVY to use with large and very large trees. A 24" stone pot gives me a hernia just thinking about moving it to overwinter the tree or to do maintenance.

I'm all for using them if they're well-made (which includes some thought to what kind of stone is used) and they're practical.

Btw: my largest tree has a 9” diamete base, is about 20” tall, and that is ALL I’m gonna EVER take by myself in ANY pot

 

[Boulder Bear]

They look pretty impressive to me.

Shohin, I’m sorry i didn’t respond earlier. At the time, I was trying NOT to take responsibility for them (ask incognito).
Thank you for your kind statement!!! That’s VERY kind of I to say!

 

[pandacular]

Do you know somebody, or know somebody who knows somebody to contact to see if there’s still space available?

@William N. Valavanis is literally the somebody running the show. I've never tried to contact him, but I hear he's quite responsive to email.

I checked out the vendor page for ya; it seems to be still accepting vendors.

Vendors - U.S. National Bonsai Exhibition

www.usnationalbonsai.com

The link at the bottom directs to Bill's email: WNV@internationalbonsai.com

God speed, you mad stone-mason, I think you will do very well. I would not make the critical mistake of artists and craftsmen everywhere and undervalue your time in calculating price, I think this will demand a high mark, and not just because of the personhours.

 

[pandacular]

i too didn't realize these were you pots at first. they're awesome!

 

[pandacular]

Also, is the official name of the event, The Nationals? Or does it go by something else?

U.S. National Bonsai Exhibition, but ya people call it the Nationals a lot. makes it feel like a high school sport if you ask me!

 

[chicago1980]

Hey Chicago,
Do u think interest wld increase dramatically, or not much at all, id similar quality of stone pots, medium sized pots but for $150-$200 wld increase overall interest?

The demand curve could increase if the price was lower. Do you have any data that suggest price and/or size can impact demand?

It could be any number of variables.

Maybe it's awareness issue, maybe it's a proximity issue, or it could be a material issue, or some other challenges you need to better understand.

For myself, I lack understanding of how stone pots would mature over time in my climate of heavy snow and freeze cycles.

 

[rockm]

I would LOVE to go there to sell, but don’t know who to contact to request being a vendor.

Do you know somebody, or know somebody who knows somebody to contact to see if there’s still space available?

Also, is the official name of the event, The Nationals? Or does it go by something else?

Lastly, I’m out here on west Coast, Bay/Wine Country area. Hoping for a good enough showing to be invited to The Rendezvous in November .
I was going to offer most all my pots at 40% retail, that would put most of them ranged in the $300-$600 range.

If any of the below pots were in that range, u think there wld be a decent chance they’d move?
Forgive me. Only starting bonsai in 2020, 100% self taught, and not a member of any club, I’ve tried reaching out a couple different times to other induviduals for SOME sense of how they’d be received, pricing, etc, but NEVER got a response.

This was my hail marry attempt at getting feedback.

Thanks again rockm!!

Again, pls let me know about nationals if u do have a lead

Boulder Bear

@pandacular posted the Nationals vendor link. Thanks @pandacular! There are a ton of clubs out in the Bay area on up into Oregon and Washington (which is a hotbed of bonsai activity too). If you can't make the Nationals in NY, you might keep an eye on the Portland Bonsai Society in particular. That club, I think, has some sales and shows that you might also sell at--it's a drive, but not a 6,000 mile round trip. Worth a call to see what they're going to be doing in the next few months.